What a Long, Strange Trip It's Been (Part 2)
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The notion that immigrants are a significant social strain is based mostly off first-generation immigrant families. Newsflash, folks: if the place you grow up is crap, you want to move. This is true anywhere. If your local school system doesn't teach English, and your public library system leaves something to be desired, it's not the easiest thing in the world to get a good backing in English. Hell, there are a lot of people in this country whom the education system fails to the point that many people can't understand what the local ignoramus is trying to say. I've worked as an English tutor in depressed areas, and the English there can be nothing much better than abysmal.
So with that, many immigrant families--or just the father/uncle, sometimes--sneak off to the states and find work under the table. Getting their kids enrolled in school can be a lot of fun, unless their kids happen to have American birth certificates (real or forged), in which case those kids are entitled to a free and appropriate public education (FAPE). Because it can be difficult to find well-paying work as an immigrant with skills that can't always be well-articulated to the local populace. The father of a high school friend of mine had a BS in engineering from a respected school in India, but the degree wasn't recognized where he worked, so he was stuck doing the equivalent of ... well, imagine me getting paid basically nothing to sit around and separate nouns from prepositions. Not exactly the most challenging academic work I've ever done.
So they're new to the country, unable to find good work if they do have significant marketable skills, sometimes unable to write much more than a few words and largely dependent on the local social services. The biggest difference between today's immigrants and immigrants back in the 18th century, as I see them, are these:
- More of them, back in the day, spoke English or some variant (though really thick Scottish or Irish brogues are sometimes unintelligible to many of us).
- Social services didn't exist then as they do now.
- Assuming you weren't being imported as a slave, you weren't female and you weren't disabled or old, you had a shot at scraping together a living.
But still we don't like that they take so much of our social service money without giving anything back. Right?
Just a little trouble with that last bit. Some of the not-giving-back is due to the fact that it's pretty bloody hard for the IRS to collect taxes on wages earned under the table. If you don't know what a W-2 is, and you don't fill one out, I'm told you don't pay any taxes on wages earned. (The other side of this is that not all immigrants know how high minimum wage is, and try asking for $5.15 an hour when your prospective employer knows he can throw a rock and wake up five men like you who will work for $20 a day and no bathroom breaks.)
Some of it is the fact that looking at the children and grandchildren of immigrants doesn't bear out the idea that they feed off social services. What percent of American doctors are white? What percent of American doctors were white back in 1950? What percent of doctors under 35 years old are white? Even not looking that high up on the socio-economic calendar, how many shops are owned by first-generation immigrants or their children? (Those of you remembering back to that "They take jobs away from Americans" argument: Do you want a good doctor, or do you just want a doctor who's white? I don't give two shiny red farts where my doctor comes from; I care that my doctor be competent. If you want to be particular, go ahead, but it's not like medical schools will allow bad students to graduate if the good ones aren't enrolled.)
You won't see me arguing that first-generation immigrants are very willing to accept what the system will give them. However, let's please not pretend all immigrant families stay at the poverty level. Let's please also remember that a goodly percent of current Americans living in the lower class or near the poverty line are not first-generation immigrants. Montana and the Dakotas, for example, have some pretty bad problems with poverty, and they weren't full of Hispanic, Latino and Asian immigrants when last I checked.
The third argument is something we've already covered, but let's review a few things:
- Every Spring Break, lots of college students (and sometimes that term is used very loosely) fly all the hell over the place looking to get baked, laid and plastered.
- Most of the ones who go to Mexico would probably not pass the Spanish Language AP exam.
- If you go to Europe and make an effort to speak the local language, the locals will bend over backward accomodating you. Been there, done that, got the adulation for knowing French and some basic Italian.
We do the very things we complain about, and it's rubbish. If you're going somewhere, damn bloody straight you should know the language or have a dictionary, and a lot of immigrant families do what they can to learn the language, which is worlds more than I can say for some people I've met who had no plans to know anything more than Tequila, Jose Cuervo and Donde están mis ropas. These same people then complain about immigrants from lesser countries coming here and not knowing the language. (They tend not to notice the immigrants who already have competent English skills, thus leading to the idea that all the immigrants here have insufficient English skills. Wonderful circular situation, isn't it?)
What it boils down to, for me, is this: we are a nation of immigrants. I am of European mutt stock from various countries and various periods of immigration. Some of my family were here before the colonies rebelled. My paternal grandmother came here in the 1930s. Albert Einstein, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Joseph Pulitzer, Benjamin Franklin and Andrew Carnegie were all immigrants or children of immigrants, yet nowhere are they or their ilk cited when talking about this immigration "problem."
Since we are not a nation of immigrants, and we do not wish to be hypocrites, it seems perfectly sensible to welcome more of the same into this country. After all, what right do we, as children of immigrants, have to say no to more of the same?
If a picture is worth a thousand words, Patrick writes a mural.
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No Subject Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader "Since we are not a nation of immigrants, and we do not wish to be hypocrites, it seems perfectly sensible to welcome more of the same into this country." Cool. There are what, 6 billion people on the planet that are not Americans. A sizeable percentage of them would like to move to the US. So they should all come? Where will we put them all? "What it boils down to, for me, is this: we are a nation of immigrants." We're also a "nation of laws", or at least we're supposed to be. I guess we should probably legalize domestic violence. After all, there are so many people who break that law, we shouldn't mind that either, should we? Legalize all drugs, including cocaine and crystal meth, since so many people break those laws too, right? Hell, let's just give them out to schoolkids. Sounds good, yes?
No Subject Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader "Albert Einstein, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Joseph Pulitzer, Benjamin Franklin and Andrew Carnegie were all immigrants or children of immigrants, yet nowhere are they or their ilk cited when talking about this immigration "problem."" Could that be because they were admitted into this country....what's the word I'm looking for....oh, yeah...LEGALLY???
What percent Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader
The word "percent" is correctly used only when combined with a number, such as "25 percent." Otherwise the word is "percentage." As in "What percentage of doctors..."p
I mention this only because you're the head copy editor and I assume you care about such things.
No Subject Posted by Blake If you want to come into this country, fill out the paperwork and take the time to actually become a LEGAL citizen. Don't be a lazy good-for-nothing by hoping the fence or trudging through the river and expect a handout. Laziness. Pure laziness.
Blake's Blog
No Subject Posted by Blake Actually, here's a better comment. Go and take some random person off the streets and have him come to classes next semester without actually being signed up for them. Sure, he didn't fill out the paperwork to join the university and probably wouldn't pay for his courses but gosh darnit, he should be let in!
No Subject Posted by Patrick"The word 'percent' is correctly used only when combined with a number, such as '25 percent.' Otherwise the word is "percentage." As in "What percentage of doctors..."p I mention this only because you're the head copy editor and I assume you care about such things."
You lack a cite. It takes more than an anonymous comment, especially from someone with a few grammar errors committed along the way, to convince me of something that goes against, e.g., this.
(The -age ending is largely pointless, as with -ality and -y; consider use/usage, dose/dosage, function/functionality, potential/potentiality, relevance/relevancy and, back in the day, fluence/fluency.)
No Subject Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader Well thanks for the dictionary cites, but didn't you notice they list the adverb form as the first definition? The noun form is the second definition: one part in a hundred. Used as a noun without another number, percent means "one percent."
A Dictionary of Usage (yes, that's USAGE, not USE) can be helpful:
"PERCENT(per cent), PERCENTAGE: Both these terms refer to fractions of one hundred. Percent always follows a numeral (40 percent of the voters), and the word should be used instead of the symbol (%) in general writing. Percentage stands alone (the percentage of votes) or follows an adjective (a high percentage)."
No Subject Posted by Ray sometimes unable to write much more than a few words and largely dependent on the local social services.Point one: they can't speak the language, most have limited skills, and they are a drain on an already weak social welfare system. Why should we allow them to come again? Assuming you weren't being imported as a slave, you weren't female and you weren't disabled or old, you had a shot at scraping together a living.Point two: today you can scrape together a living regardless of race or gender. Some of the not-giving-back is due to the fact that it's pretty bloody hard for the IRS to collect taxes on wages earned under the table. Exactly. If they come here legally we have documentation. THe illegals, who no one knows if they are here or not, do not have to pay because they are under the radar. Are you trying to defend them for doing this? Why shouldnt we kick them back to their third world country and let them try to come here legally? Do you want a good doctor, or do you just want a doctor who's white? I don't give two shiny red farts where my doctor comes from; I care that my doctor be competent. Is anyone arguing the opposite? Every Spring Break, lots of college students (and sometimes that term is used very loosely) fly all the hell over the place looking to get baked, laid and plastered.
Most of the ones who go to Mexico would probably not pass the Spanish Language AP exam. How is this at all relevant? Are the college kids going there asking to use their welfare system? Are they or are they not putting money into their economy? Are they paying taxes? Now look at the illegals: they come here, use our welfare, do not pay taxes, and any disposible income they make they are sending back to Mexico to inflate their economy. So please, how is any of that related? What it boils down to, for me, is this: we are a nation of immigrants. Right. But if you look back, the immigrants gave up their ways of life to become American. These mexicans come in here and expect the majority to conform to them. Sure America is a melting pot, but you take the right amount of ingredients. If you overload it with one ingredient, it becomes garbage. And that is what this article is, garbage. But hey, at least this time you actually talked about immigration and not working in a chinese buffet. You like fly lice?
No Subject Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader
SAWR, give it up. PH-K has you beat.
No Subject Posted by Ray
How about both of you stop being gay and address the article or the points I countered with?
No Subject Posted by Joe
It's nice to see that when you are arguing over something trivial there are post everyday. When someone questions the substance of your paper you go silent. Afraid?
No Subject Posted by Ray
It's been like 5 days, so I dont think he will respond. I've seen this before. We got into a discussion over aim, and Patrick didn't like what I had to say so he blocked me. Ha, that still makes me laugh. Oh well.
No Subject Posted by Some Anonymous Whim Reader
ANYBODY HOME?
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